RSSWhy Men Don’t Understand “No”
October 29, 2008
I often wonder why my husband behaves as though I haven’t spoken when I firmly, bluntly, concisely, and clearly ask that he not do certain things. I am not a vague person. I don’t ramble when I speak with him.
If anything, my arrows are shot straighter than necessary. It goes with being an Autumn, if you believe that each season has its own personality, as Bernice Kentner does. Click on each season’s icon near the bottom of the page to see if you match the season you think you belong to.
I adhere closely to the 90 second rule, even when we’re not fighting (see How To Fight With A Man And Win). I say what I mean and I mean what I say.
It is as though I haven’t said a word.
Are their ears plugged?
It could be a small thing like not handling any laundry except his own. I must have asked 7 times but he couldn’t hear. I finally taped an enormous sign over the machine that he HAD to see EACH time.
It could be a big issue like “either lay off the beer after work or stay away till we’re all in bed” – with big consequences, clearly spelled out.
I have a strong and good marriage. I’m pretty sure I got it right the first time and will stay with the one I’m with till the end. I am married to the man of my dreams, to the extent that he exists in the real world.
Having said that, I have no arrogance about the permanence of my marriage. We all have lines others should not cross. If it does end, the only reason I would ever marry again would be to secure half someone’s assets, and there had better be some real money on the table.
(kidding, kidding; I would never marry again).
Do they just not care?
The question at the moment is “Why in the world can he not hear me?” True, he doesn’t like rules to apply to him. He doesn’t feel he’s above them. It’s more of an irritation, a rejection of rules altogether, a conviction that they’re an annoyance intended for the small-minded, like Harry Potter.
It’s not just the one I’m married to. It’s all of them. Do I speak for us all here, or not? And let’s face it, the principle that “No is meaningless” has value. This is why they do better with rejection. “No” is another form of “Yes, but later”. Maybe it’s not a bad rule to follow.
For women, “No” is another form of “Oh dear, they don’t like me. What have I done to offend? This is all my fault. Let me run around in circles and fall all over myself saying things I don’t mean, trying to make amends.”
Have we taught them this?
As is always the case, answers can be found in the mirror. What is it that I do to cause Bill to misconstrue what No could possibly mean? In dealing with my son, I saw that it’s more widespread than just Bill and I.
For generations, boys of all ages been trained by women that when we say No, it means No, No, No, Maybe, Maybe, Probably, Probably, Probably, OK-if-you-say-so, OK-well-fine-then, Yes.
My son has learned that if he pecks at me enough, I’ll often get used to idea or give in to be left alone (no different with my daughters, may I say). And we all know about the teenage boy that won’t let it go till he gets what he wants, usually at the maximum limit that it’s available to him.
With my children, I now defer the problem with “We’ll see” while I think about it …and if they continue harassing me, it becomes a firm “No and no option to revisit the question”.
How do we speak to men?
What type of logic appeals to them?
Is this the answer? I think it might be.
Consequences are of limited use because pride gets in the way.
Productivity is a level of logic that they understand but I couldn’t think of an angle that could work here.
Ultimatums are no good because they get defensive and nervous if they’re cornered.
Appealing to their feelings with “It hurts me when you…” might work with some of them but I would venture that most can’t carry that around long enough to control their behavior in the moment. They already know there’s going to be a problem but they’d rather put up with it, knowing that eventually we’ll get over it, thereby reinforcing the No, No, No, Yes cycle.
“Catch him being good”, like in dog training? Tried it. Doesn’t work. He relaxes his self-discipline and I get taken for a ride I don’t want to go on.
My conclusion has become the same as for fighting cancer – it might still happen, but at least I know I did everything I could to prevent it. I stated my case, I never made him guess at the problem. If things get ugly one day, well then, they do.
And I have to be reasonable. Hell’s bells, I’m not perfect and I don’t expect myself to be. I have to live by the rules I set for others. I can’t expect him to be perfect all the time either.
How much do you let slide? What if he shrinks one of my wool sweaters once a year? What if he gets into mischief with my brother and imbibes a little too much red wine at Christmastime? Surely, I can endure.
Comments
9 Responses to “Why Men Don’t Understand “No””
Got something to say? I hope so.
-
A Greener Tea
Web Maintenence by Rick Beckman
Christine: You are not his mother. He has made you replace his mother, but YOU ARE NOT. Let him know that he is your partner, and your best friend. You deserve that respect, and give him that respect in return.
After 23 years of marriage I have learned to pick my battles.
The “Sofa Socks” (socks in front of the sofa every morning, how they get there is a mystery (not really) but they aren’t worth the energy of an argument and they aren’t “divorce material”.
There are big things that need to get put out there and resolved and small things that after the 3rd or 4th (or 12th) time nagging, just clearly aren’t going to change, so you ask yourself “is it a deal breaker?”, if not learn to accept and live with it and move on.
However, we do have all sorts of power over our children and can mold them into the men we want them to be…as long as they don’t spend too much alone time with dad and the sofa socks.
This is a carbon copy of my life. However, my husband will deny till the cows come home that he leaves his socks there. Even with the kids, the house keeper and myself telling him that yes he does, he will will get furious and adament that he has maybe only, “ONCE” ever done that.
Even when we make a big production every single day when someone had to pick up those stincky, yucky socks…….
And yes, that part makes me very mad……
And I hear you, I will never ever ever get married again……
And yes Linda, they definately wanted to marry a mother, and that is scary when they didn’t even like their mother when they were growing up ( according to them which I am not sure if I believe that now anymore….)
Very enlightning…….sad to know it is not just my life…
Dana
Before we get too deep into the hubby bashing let’s remember this “we picked ‘em”. Guys are guys, with all of their foibles they are wonderful and endearing and sometimes they quite surprise us (whisked me away for a long weekend after my father’s funeral so I could get my head on straight). And ladies, remember we have our “quirks” too. My hubby cannot fathom why I have 8 different pair of black shoes, what exactly is the purpose of “guest towels”, why I rotate the underwear, freshly washed to the bottom of the stack (that, I’ll admit is a bit OCD). So “for better or for worse”…
@ Linda,
I thought about your comment for a couple of days. There are those men who want a mother, but I think their speech bubble goes something like ” The little woman keeps me in line”, or they like having a structure of rules that they can constantly hammer their (and your) head against, where you are the one who carries the blame for the restrictions they must live with.
I’m pretty sure that’s not my husband, though I admit I haven’t quite figured out what it is. I really think it’s ONLY about what feels good in the moment, and deal with the fallout later. We are each others’ partner, buddy, and friend, but if I had to put words in his mouth, I think they’d be ” You’re making a deal out of nothing” , alternating with “I thought I was doing what you asked”.
Or am I just doing the woman thing and making excuses for him?
@ Kathryn,
Wise words. I think a lot about the kind of people my children will be, particularly my son in this context. I want him to become a man that I will like. I hope he controls his behavior even when his friends are around, and doesn’t grow up to be a pig. Every generation seems better than the one before.
And, yeah, we are not perfect for damn sure! I never wash the van. I barely remember to change the oil every 8000 km or so. Bill tells me our fridge should have a front door and a back door, so I can shove stuff in the front and pull it out the back. He loves nothing better than looking for a meal at 11 PM and having bowls and kiwis come tumbling out like marbles.
@ Dana,
It’s all of our lives. The secret is to not take it too seriously, I’m pretty sure. After 16 years, we’ve trained each other on most matters that the other will be capable of changing. The rest is what it is, and will remain so.
There were things I used to hate and resent, like when he worked 18 hour days or he had a couple of beers before coming home and was asleep on the couch within 15 minutes. I’ve learned to see that in both cases, it means I have the house to myself…and I like it!
Dear Dana,
Stop picking up his socks. Tell the housekeeper and the kids to stop picking up his socks. Kick them to one side. Eventually he will run out of socks. Then he will go pick them up and wash them himself. You will have to put up with socks on the floor for a while. See it as a scientific experiment and count how many pairs he has. Hide some if you have to so he runs out sooner. I think it could be hilarious.
OMG I love this post and all the comments that have gone after. (I do wonder what men write about us but not enough to go searching through blogs to find out :). Besides I agree that they look at all this as
‘too much talk about things that really don’t matter in the grand scheme of things. What are socks or a few beer anyway. I still come home and I still earn enough of a wage that we all enjoy socks and you can have beer too if you want’
is the attitude.
I have to say that as the mother of a 19 year old daughter and a 17 year old son it is fascinating to watch them interact. As she becomes more active in the dating world she has words of advice for him(actually more like threats and I am okay with that) that are far more powerful than anything I could utter. Each time she comes home from university it is with the one cardinal rule that she instills in him…DON”T BE AN ASSHOLE!!!!! then proceeds to describe in detail what that entails.
I think my job here is done
Hi
Isn’t funny the same discussion just occurred in our house. My husband just doesn’t listen to me. Even in issues like money management or holiday planning he appears to consider my voice to be meaningless. It is absolutely disrespectful. It is the same pattern every time (you would think I would learn as well). I state that I will organized X, he agrees, I organize X and we sit together, in a quiet place and discuss the pros and cons of X, we come to an agreement, then he goes off and does whatever he pleases. It as if the conversation never occurred.
It is just disrespectful.
I have suggested that if he doesn’t want to be a team player that is fine, but it means to loss of many other privileges.
I actually forwarded this posting to him and asked him to read it. When he read your comments he could not see his own behavior in your description.
Hi, women,
@ May,
You and I have a similar housekeeping approach. I keep my own towel. If the rest of the family wishes to leave wet towels about, and then wonder that there are no dry towels, then having their pyjamas stuck to their skin might clue them in.
@ Gina,
I think you’ve summed up the male point of view. I didn’t hit the target nearly as well. It’s “nobody’s stopping you from doing what you want too, you just choose not to”. This is because men have more struggle to live the way you have to to keep a relationship, a family, and a household together. Somehow, it surprises them that a wife and kids cuts into their pre-children lifestyle.
I’m glad to hear you can hand the torch to your daughter.
@ Holly,
Bill wouldn’t see it either. He sincerely believes these conversations never happened. Not that he misunderstood. Not that I wasn’t clear. But it never even took place! I really think some things are just hopeless. As Kathryn said, some things are not going to change. They better not be the deal-breakers.