Makeup Model : Warm Autumn

39 Responses to “Makeup Model : Warm Autumn”

1. Christine Scaman on March 4th, 2009 2:26 pm

   As a PS to the post, I found a picture of another Warm Autumn wearing Plastique lipstick on one of my favorite blogs. Have a look at her here,

   http://www.temptalia.com/guest-look-stephanies-spiced-chocolate-look

   It’s good, hey?
2. Caroline L. on July 8th, 2009 10:52 am

   Hi Christine! I enjoy learning from your expertise in seasonal color analysis. I’m an autumn, with medium reddish brown hair, medium green-brown hazel eyes, and light ivory skin with rosacea. I guess I’m a warm autumn in the 12 season system. I’m not a redhead with freckles like Julianne Moore, Sarah Ferguson, or other warm autumns that are typically used as examples of this season, but my coloring is not deep and strong enough for deep autumn, and I have too much contrast between my hair and skin for soft autumn. Could I be a warm autumn without being auburn or redhead?

   I am at a loss about what blush/bronzer and lipstick//gloss to wear. The Christian Dior blush you suggested looked pink on me because it accentuated the rosacea. Most bronzers that I’ve tried are either too dark, orange, or muddy on me. These include NARS Laguna, Estee Lauder Bronze Goddess, Bobbi Brown Light, Medium, and Natural. Most blushes are too bright and/or too pink. Consequently, I don’t wear blush or bronzer, using my rosacea to give me some color, but sometimes I want to look a little more polished than that.

   I’m also at a loss for lip color, because I have a fair amount of red pigment in my lips. I’ve been wearing Cliniue Pink Peach (now discontinued), but it might be a tad too cool toned for me. I like a soft, natural look because I have a small mouth.

   I love that you give specific brand and color names in your recommendations. Can you suggest some cheek and lip colors for me? Thank you!
3. Caroline L. on July 8th, 2009 10:55 am

   Woops, I meant Clinique . Sorry for the typo.
4. Christine Scaman on July 11th, 2009 7:35 pm

   Hi, Caroline,
   I will try but I need time at a makeup counter. I usually use MAC and Clinique because they’re available to most and have a reasonable price. I’ll post when I have some suggestions.
5. Caroline L. on July 12th, 2009 12:32 pm

   Hi Christine,

   MAC and Clinique are great because they have so many products. I look forward to your suggestions. I recently tried on MAC Honeyflower lipstick and it was too dark. The sales associate said, “Oh no, take that off. It’s so dark!” I didn’t want to take up his time trying on other colors, because I thought I’d wait for your advice before going back there.

   I also tried Clinique Sunset gloss, and that wasn’t lively enough on me. It was the right intensity in terms of light and dark, but it was dull.

   My skin is quite fair. I wear Prescriptives Virtual Skin foundation in Real Cream, the second lightest color in the yellow/orange family.

   Thanks in advance for your help.
6. Monty on July 13th, 2009 2:03 am

   Caroline,

   I believe I am also a Warm Autumn and, like you, ” I’m not a redhead with freckles like Julianne Moore, Sarah Ferguson, or other warm autumns that are typically used as examples of this season, but my coloring is not deep and strong enough for deep autumn, and I have too much contrast between my hair and skin for soft autumn.”

   For a lipcolor I successfully use Laura Geller’s Lip Stay in Russet. I think I’m on my sixth wand of it. One side is color and the other is a gloss to put over the color.

   I can’t recommend a blush because I mix my blush colors at the moment. In fact, I mix three of them as taught to me by a Trish McEvoy artist because I was having problems finding just the right blush. I had the three blushes already, but could only wear one of them. She got the bright idea to put them all together in my makeup magnetic page and so I take my brush and swipe all three of them before applying. LOL

   I also wear Prescriptives Virtual Skin foundation, but I have to mix Real Gold and Real Ecru in the Yellow/Orange family together to achieve a skintone mach.
7. Christine Scaman on July 18th, 2009 12:40 pm

   Caroline,

   I can’t wear Honeyflower either, not so much because it’ s dark but because it’ s too orange. You’ve looked at MAC Plastique, right? There are others, but I’m away from home and will find you some colours when I’m back full time.

   Monty,

   Good answers there. The 3 blush story is kind of intriguing but could certainly work. You sound Autumny. Many Autumns are not redheads. Maybe most are not. When I find some Autumn colours, if you try any, let me know how they work.
8. Monty on July 19th, 2009 1:41 am

   Hi Christine,

   The three colors of blush that I mix are a Soft Peach (Trish McEvoy), a medium warm (not brown) Terracotta (Trish McEvoy) and Mary Kay Golden Copper. I start swiping from the light Soft Peach and end with the Golden Copper.

   I also ordered a Becca Cream Blush named Terracotta and it’s a beautiful warm shade, but not brown.

   On a side note, I ordered a Sci/Art True Autumn fan and love it. Practically all the colors in my wardrobe are on that fan. And the presentation makes it so very easy to match clothing fabrics.

   I met Bernice Kentner and her daughter, Denise, a few years ago and was analyzed as a Golden Autumn. I knew I could wear some Spring colors successfully and actually lived as a Spring for 15 years because I didn’t realize the “richness” of my coloring until my consultation with them.
9. Caroline L. on July 20th, 2009 10:05 am

   Christine,

   I tried Plastique and I couldn’t bear all the frost; the color seemed OK, but I couldn’t really tell because it was super frosty on me. Is there something similar but without frost? Please don’t think I’m limited to just MAC and Clinique. I live in NYC and have lots of choices at my disposal. I tried on Chanel Lily Beige, which, not surprisingly, was a touch too dull and beige.

   I tried on Clinique Honey Blush, and it might be a touch too coral-red ( I have rosacea). I think it might be better suited to a Spring. What do you think? I was looking for a tawny peach, as recommended by Carole Jackson in her CMB books. Tawny peach would be a tan/golden peach, right? I guess that would be spot-on for me, if it existed!

   Monty,

   Thanks for your suggestions. Laura Geller Stay Russet is pretty, but too long wearing. I’m going to check out Becca Terracotta blush. I admire your patience with mixing blushes.

   Lucky you meeting Bernice Kentner! It’s great when an expert does your color analysis. I went to David Kibbe in the early 1990’s and was told I was a Vivid Autumn. For him, all brown haired Autumns were Vivid, redheads were Fiery Autumns, and blondes were Soft Autumns or maybe Gentle. I don’t think he’s around anymore. JoAnne Richmond analyzed me as a Warm Autumn back in April. She wrote the most recent Color Me Beautiful book. I sent her a bunch of photographs and she had no problem telling me that I was definitely a Warm Autumn.
10. Monty on July 20th, 2009 12:13 pm

    Hi, Caroline,

    Hmmm. Funny, but I’ve been a Kibbe follower for over 25 years. He is still around because he made a video for Boomer TV a couple of years ago.

    Do you find you can veer into some Spring colors?

    If I come across a lipstick that isn’t long wearing, I’ll let you know. I usually wear Russet almost everyday.
11. Monty on July 20th, 2009 3:11 pm

    Oh, I forgot to mention that you can make the Laura Geller Lipstay in Russet less long wearing by priming you lips with either Aquaphor, lip balm, or a light layer of the gloss in the other side of the tube. I also do that sometimes especially if my lips feel dry.
12. Caroline L. on July 21st, 2009 7:58 am

    I’m starting to wonder if Spring lip colors suit me better than Autumn. I tried Plastique again and it was corpse-like. Brown lipsticks and glosses don’t flatter me; I need color, but not strong, bright , deep color. Reds bring out my rosacea (Laura Geller Russet has too much red for me). I guess I need light-medium peaches that are slightly toned down.

    Clothing is a different story. I love the way I look in true Autumn colors like brown, deep tan, and forest green. Spring colors aren’t saturated enough for my coloring.

    Monty, did David Kibbe do your color analysis too? He used to have classes of about 6 women and he’d drape us, one at a time, and then have each of us stand up so he could see our bone structure head to toe. He’d tell us our season and our “image identity.” In my case, he said, “You are Emma Peel” (the character in the Avengers played by Diana Rigg). He told one of my friends, “You are Melanie in Gone with the Wind.” The funny thing is, he was right. I bear a striking resemblance to Diana Rigg as Emma Peel, both in coloring and overall bone structure.
13. Monty on July 21st, 2009 8:34 pm

    I can’t do brown lipsticks either. And, I also need a lip color that is not too strong, not too bright and not too deep. LOL My lips are small so I need my lip color just right — not always easy to achieve.

    I have a lot of orange-red tones in my skin and orange-y/coppery lipsticks seem to look best on me. Prescriptives had a color called Copper that was very good, I don’t know if they still make it. Mary Kay had one that I really liked called Coppermine and, of course, they discontinued the color shortly after I discovered it. LOL But that’s not helping you out. Sorry.

    Have you tried stopping by the Px counter and checking out their lipsticks in the Red/Orange category? They have some that do not appear red or orange looking at all, but have that undertone going for them.

    I cannot go too frosted….I lose the richness of the lipstick color if too much frost is added.

    I never met Kibbe, I just have his book that I’ve own since it came out. I have studied every identity thoroughly over and over until I had it pretty well memorized. The whole system was interesting to me and I still refer to it from time to time. I helped someone who I worked with. She was a Soft Gamine. She looked fantastic using Kibbe’s parameters. It really sparked her.

    What ID did Kibbe say you were? Diana Rigg has some angularity and is 5′8 1/2 inches. That would probably make her a Dramatic?
14. Caroline L. on July 22nd, 2009 7:50 am

    Monty,

    Kibbe said I was Dramatic Classic, which he described as essentially classic but with some angularity (high cheekbones, square shoulders). I’m not as tall as Diana Rigg. I wonder if her height would make her a Dramatic. David Kibbe gave us each a cassette with a full description of our image identity. I threw it out years ago, when I got rid of the cassette player. My friend, who he said was Melanie in Gone with the Wind, is a Soft Classic.

    Diana Rigg is obviously an Autumn. What subtype do you think she is? (Google Emma Peel for photos of when she was younger–she’s blonde now.) I’m interested to hear whether you think she’s Warm or Deep.

    I’ve had success on the liptstick and blush front!! Clinique Pink Penny lipstick looks great on me. It’s not pink at all, but copper. It’s the copper of a penny that’s been in circulation for a little while, so it’s not too bright, not too dull. Check it out. Like you, I have a small mouth, so lipstick is a challenge. Thanks for the Prescriptives Red/Orange lipstick suggestion. I’ll take a look. I’ve examined the Yellow/Orange choices (my foundation is Y/O) and they’re too brown. Champagne, in the Y/O category, isn’t terrible, but it’s a bit too dull. It’s the best of the browns, though.

    I found two blushes that suit me. Shiseido Soft Orange (muted peach), and Benefit Georgia (very light peach with a touch of shimmer). I usually get by without any blush at all because ruddiness from rosacea peaks through my foundation. I found that these peach colors tone down the ruddiness and look really pretty on my skin. I have to apply the Shiseido one very lightly, or else it’s too much pigment. I don’t have to be as careful with Benefit Georgia.
15. Monty on July 22nd, 2009 10:52 am

    Caroline,

    Great that you found a lipstick and two blushes. Yay!!!

    The name Pink Penny scares me as I turn lipsticks pink and have to be very careful. LOL I’ll look at it next time I’m at the department store.

    Benefit Georgia is very light for me, but glad it suits you because of your rosacea.

    Yes, “Melanie” , Olivia de Haviland is listed as a Soft Classic and that is my best fit category. I’ve done a lot of Image searching on the Net about Olivia and I do have a kinship with her.

    My mother is a Dramatic Classic. Diana Rigg’s height does seem to tall for a DC, however, he writes that the height parameter is moderate to 5′ 7″. Sometimes I think his height range is off a bit. I would have to study many photos of her to see if she is a Dramatic and not a DC.

    Enjoy your new lipstick and blushes!
16. Caroline L. on July 22nd, 2009 5:08 pm

    Monty,

    Bad news with the Pink Penny lipstick…my husband HATES it on me. He likes me in lighter, softer colors like some of the peach/apricot glosses I wear. I wear Clinique Apricot, MAC Prrr, and True Dreamy (peach). My husband is not usually outspoken about my cosmetics or clothing, so I take him seriously when he reacts like that. Back to the drawing board, I guess. Or maybe I ought to stick to wearing lipgloss instead of lipstick.

    So you’re a Soft Classic like Olivia de Havilland. Do you look like her? Maybe David Kibbe didn’t know how tall Diana Rigg is when he told me I’m her (and a Dramatic Classic).

    Do you think Diana Rigg, in her younger days, is a Warm Autumn or a Deep Autumn?
17. Monty on July 22nd, 2009 9:32 pm

    Sorry to hear Pink Penny. For your hubby to voice such a strong opinion, the color must definitely not be right!!!!

    Are your lips very pigmented? In 1973, Carol Jackson wrote in the original CMB book: “Some Autumns need bright lipstick colors, while others need a soft, subdued color. Autumns usually do not look good in highly frosted shades except for evenings. They should avoid peaches that are too pink.”

    I do not look like Olivia, I have a “kinship” with her and am closest to her than the other celebrities mentioned for that category.

    Well, Kibbe saw the angularity in your face and, as you said, you also resemble her to some degree. But, to me, she looks more like a Dramatic than a Dramatic Classic.
    http://www.moviesbuzz.com/english/special/bondgirls/RIGG88181806_400.jpg

    Also, it appears that in her younger days she was a Deep Autumn who could also showcase herself as a Warm Autumn by changing her hair color. At least that is my impression at this time. I’m not a trained consultant. And, she sure did look great in that black Avenger outfit.
18. Monty on July 24th, 2009 11:16 am

    Testing. I wrote out a reply and think I posted it twice, however, neither one has appeared. Don’t know what happened.
19. Monty on July 24th, 2009 11:26 am

    Caroline,

    Since my “test” post is showing up, I’ll try to recreate what I wrote to you. Sorry Pink Penny didn’t work out for you. I would take my husband seriously if he felt that strongly about a makeup color I was wearing.

    Carole Jackson wrote in CMB regarding lipstick: “Some Autumns need bright colors, while others need a soft, subdued color. Autumns usually do not look good in highly frosted shades except for evening. They should avoid peaches that are too pink”. Old news, but still interesting.

    I do not look like Olivia de Haviland, but I have a kinship with her more than the other Soft Classics Kibbe lists. And, of all the identities, SC is just my best fit.

    It looks like Diana Rigg was a Deep Autumn, doesn’t it? She also could warm herself up quite a bit looking at her overall photos. She did look great in that black Avenger outfit!
20. Caroline L. on July 27th, 2009 8:49 am

    I bought MAC Entice lipgloss. MAC describes it as a soft spice. Sounds about right. It’s a cinnamon color. Rust, really. It works well with my coloring (and my husband didn’t say anything when I wore it to church yesterday).

    Good point about the black Avenger outfits looking good on Diana Rigg. That would make her a Deep Autumn. But she only wore the black jumpsuit in the black and white episodes. I wonder if she would look as good in black in color, where her reddish brown hair color and true skin tone is apparent. I need to look at color Emma Peel photos to see if she’s wearing black in any of them. I think her dominant characteristic is warm, right? Or is it deep?

    I’m asking this because I look so much like her, and I don’t want to post pictures of myself on the internet (and I don’t know how to anyway). David Kibbe said I was a Vivid Autumn, i.e, deep. (His Warm Autumn is Fiery Autumn.) JoAnne Richmond said I was a Warm Autumn. I can’t tell if I suit the deepest colors, like black-brown or the warmest colors like pumpkin and mustard. I’m an awful judge of myself. I stick to the classic Autumn colors as mentioned in my earlier post, but I’d like to know if I’d look good expanding my wardrobe in either the deep or warm direction.

    So, what do others think? Christine? Is Diana Rigg, as Emma Peel, a Deep Autumn or a Warm Autumn? Thanks!
21. Monty on July 28th, 2009 2:31 am

    If we are going by these photos, links below, looks like Deep Autumn. However, they do look colorized.

    http://tinyurl.com/nmrur4

    http://www.tomsoter.com/files/images/avengers2.jpg

    However, I think you should find a test to figure out if your are Deep or Warm. Maybe you are Deep, and then Warm is a secondary characteristic.?

    Deeps apparently can wear black on its own or with the other colors in your deep and warm palette as per Color Me Confidant. They write to add tomato red or mahogany to your black. Can you do that? Or camel or coffee with black for a softer look. Soft white or ivory with black. ????

    For Warm & Soft they say that black is not in your palette. They say for best reults conbine black with one of the warm and soft tones from your palette. Mustard, terracotta, or salmon pink. Does this look better?
22. Christine Scaman on August 1st, 2009 9:27 am

    Wow, you women are brilliant! I’ve been away for a bit and still fighting with the software that runs this system so I apologize for not participating in the conversation. I’ve enjoyed catching up today.

    In no particular order, here are some things that floated through my head as I read,

    - Caroline, I’m beginning to wonder if you’re not an Autumn too. Plastique is certainly frosted and I understand what you mean by corpse-like. I used to mix it with MAC Jubilee back when I saw myself as Autumn. Being wrong about me is one of the best things that could have happened to me, though I admit it caused me some embarrassment.

    Since I am limited in my makeup selection, I’ll stay with Clinique. Some True Autumn colours to consider would be Golden Brandy, Sugared Grapefruit, Crushed Grape, Spiced Apple, Creamy Nude. They don’t have the best selection for this season.

    I’m not a fan of lips that are skin-colour or paler, especially in older faces where the lips are fading into the skin enough without using makeup that does the same thing. Ambrosia might be good too. I find many True Autumn women, who don’t really know what their youngest skin looks like in right colours, are often using colours that are too pale and faded because they feel safer. If hair colour is off, it will detract from the skin hugely. And then if hair and clothes are both in colours that age and detract, makeup doesn’t really stand a chance of a true assessment.

    With the more colored makeup that works for darker seasons and livens older faces, sheer textures really are terrific if you can wear the creamy slippy application. It doesn’t feel like too much of a statement but achieves feature definition.

    - I don’t know Kibbe’s work but it sounds fascinating. Re: the actress in the links …. until that woman is draped with her hair hidden, I myself haven’t got a clue what season she is. And if I believe hair colour, eye colour, and eye patterns are not precise enough, I just can’t use stature, bone structure, etc. All those variables may have some application and will appear in the averages, but it goes wrong too. She could be a True Winter for all I know.

    In a Winter, blacks can clear a yellow cast from the skin. Who knows what she looks like without makeup and lights? Often, Autumns have a yellowish look too where every freckle pops out; in their colours, which may be schoolbus-yellow, the freckles blend away, the yellow tone clears, and the skin appears to tighten and become poreless. Ya gotta look at un-made-up skin in a variety of colours. Really.

    - I’m not a follower of the CMB system of Dominants and Secondaries. The system is clever and may be one of the best for identifying colouring with a book. It will indeed get a lot of people right.

    - having lunch with Bernice is one of my dreams in life. I tell you, I have such respect for that woman. She figured out A TON of stuff long before anyone else. I read and re-read her material. I don’t necessarily agree with everything but the world would be just too dull if we all agreed all the time. She is just brilliant. Yes, OK, the books have some typos and are dated and so on, but there is so much great information there. She had insight for this stuff like few others I know.

    - Monty, you’re a woman who knows and loves colour! Yes, the Sci\ART swatches are fabulously well thought-out. A big dot of lasting strong colour. Easy to carry, easy to compare, just really good. $US70 to never make a clothing or makeup mistake again? Expensive? I think not.

    Great conversation.
23. Monty on August 1st, 2009 11:50 am

    Hi, Christine,

    I just want to clarify that Kibbe doesn’t analyse stature, bone structure, etc., to put someone in a Season. He uses it in conjunction with clothing lines (silhouette), jewelry, etc. To my knowledge, he also worked with Carole Jackson in defining CMB and was a contributor to Jackson’s book, “Color For Men”. He writes that having your colors done has absolutely nothing to do with anything other than determining what your skin tone is and which palette of colors to work with to enhance it.

    With that said, he does recommend his various “image identities” to use and combine “their colors” in certain ways in his system based on the concept of Yin and Yang. An example would be someone who is tall with an angular sharp edged face (Yang) — he advies them to think “head-to-toe” with their color schemes and suggests that the deepest colors that complement their coloring is best. And, if they use the pastel shades in their individual palette, to use them by creating an entire ensemble (for a more dramatic look). He doesn’t advise these types of women to use multicolor splashes and a mix ‘n match approach to color as he would advise someone who is Natural in his system (Soft Yang). Nevertheless, it’s an interesting system.

    Anyway, just wanted to clear up Kibbe’s take on color as discussed in his 1987 book.

    I definitely agree with what you wrote regarding Bernice Kentner. A truly remarkable, talented lady.
24. Christine Scaman on August 3rd, 2009 12:05 pm

    I get it and I agree with the guy. While PCA is only decided by the effect of colour on skin, there are ways to drive the effect of the look even further. When someone gets the whole thing working, dayam, it’s hard to peel your eyes off them. Thanks for introducing me to his work, Monty. I’m going to look up his system today, it sounds really interesting.
25. Caroline L. on August 3rd, 2009 4:55 pm

    Christine,
    Thanks for all the lipstick suggestions. I tried them on at Sephora. I don’t like opaque lipstick on me, so I applied them all on the sheer side. Here’s the rundown:
    Golden Brandy: great, if applied very sheerly
    Sugared Grapefruit: very good, but not as good as Golden Brandy, which has less pink
    Crushed Grape: too dark, but I’d probably wear a shirt in this color
    Spiced Apple: great for fall and winter–a bit dark for now
    Creamy Nude: washed me out a little, but it’s the best nude I’ve ever tried (most wash me out completely)
    Ambrosia: great

    I’ve also tried Bobbi Brown Carnation lipstick, which is a peach with a tiny drop of pink added. It works, applied with a light hand.

    As for blush, Bobbi Brown Tawny was a winner, also applied lightly.

    Christine, in your earlier post, you said, “I wonder if you’re not an Autumn too.” What other season did you think I might be? As a reminder, my skin is pale ivory (no sallowness at all). I wear Prescriptives Virtual Skin Real Cream, Bobbi Brown Tinted Moisturizer Extra Light Tint, MAC NC 15. My eyes are medium green-brown (yellow-gold and orange are visible with a magnifying mirror). My childhood hair was medium copper reddish brown.

    Monty,
    Thanks for your tests for wearing black. Well, I look really good with camel or coffee and black. Mahogany with black might be a little dark–I’m not sure. Tomato red with black is too strong. Soft white and ivory with black is too much contrast. Mustard and black is OK, as is terracotta and black (neither of these are as good as camel/coffee with black because the contrast with mustard/black and terracotta/black is borderline too strong; both would look better with dark brown instead of black). Salmon pink and black is too strong. Looking good in camel and black makes me a deep?

    I like the Diana Rigg photos you posted.
26. Monty on August 3rd, 2009 8:54 pm

    I would not say that looking good in Camel and Black qualifies you for a Deep. They were just suggetions to try to put you in their system.

    I purchased MAC Entice Lipgloss….had to return it. It was extremely weak and pale on me. I also looked at BB Tawny blush today and it is too soft and muted and not warm enough for me.
27. Christine Scaman on August 4th, 2009 7:50 am

    Hi, Caroline,

    I can speculate about season but it wouldn’t be of much use to you. You might be Soft Autumn. You might equally be a Spring of some sort. Skin is a funny thing in its reaction to colour. It is affected by complements and after-images, by reflected colours, by its own thickness, by tendencies to have yellow casts, by its ability to be cleared by certain colours.

    If I’ve learned one thing, it’s that nobody can predict what colour skin really is or what it will do in the presence of colour till it’s analyzed in various shades. And you know, as you read this site, that eye and hair colour don’t influence me even a little bit. I’ve seen Summers with warm brown hair and red hair. I know Dark Autumns with soft, fluffy gray hair. I know Springs with ash brown hair.

    The other thing that throws a wrench into season prediction is that I’m never sure if women like makeup because it really does look good or if it’s just what they’re used to seeing themselves in, as I did. You love colour – you would find the PCA process fascinating. Do you know how to locate an analyst? That’s what you really need.
28. Caroline L. on August 5th, 2009 9:21 am

    Hi Monty,
    I’m sorry you had to return Entice lip gloss. Your coloring must be stronger than mine, based on your experience with Entice and Tawny blush.

    Hi Christine,
    Excellent point about seeing yourself in makeup colors. There can absolutely be a huge gap between subjectivity and objectivity here, as was the case with you.
    I got the name of a Sci/Art consultant in NYC from their web site. I got an endlessly ringing phone when I called her yesterday, but I’ll try again. Yes, I love color. David Kibbe analyzed me as a Vivid Autumn, but that was in the early 90’s. It would be fun to get draped again.
29. Monty on August 5th, 2009 10:36 am

    Hi Caroline,

    I’m excited to hear that you are seeking an appointment with a color consultant and look forward to your results.

    I think you are right that my coloring must in some ways be stronger and that is the reason you cannot wear Laura Geller’s lip color in Russet successfully and I can.
30. Caroline L. on August 7th, 2009 8:40 am

    Hi Christine,

    I tried sending you a private email about this matter, but it was returned to me because “relay access denied.”

    I spoke to the Sci\Art consultant in NYC yesterday and I have some concerns. She told me the process lasts between 1-1.5 hours and costs $150. It consists of:
    red drapes (I think I understood that correctly…)
    determination of season (one of the 4 seasons)
    determination of specific season (one of 12)
    color book with my 65 colors

    She has only analyzed 17 people.

    I was expecting a 3 hour session with a hair and makeup option. I’m hesitant to proceed any further with her. What’s your take on this?

    I wish you lived closer! Do you know where Lora Alexander is based? I know she doesn’t follow the Sci\Art system, but she’s great with color.

    Thanks in advance for your reply.
31. Christine Scaman on August 11th, 2009 8:07 pm

    Hi, Caroline,

    Something about my emails seems to be screwy. Others have said the same. I’ll have to fix that. I don’t even know what that error message means. The address christine@agreenertea.com should always work, it’s external to the blog software. Just don’t go into it from the Contact page, do it in your separate email program.

    The Sci\ART process sounds pretty similar to mine. It’s $180 CDN, so about the same. It takes 2-3 hours. The makeup can be done that day, though if I ever have a choice, I’d prefer not to, or not in an involved way. First, the PCA process is draining. Second, the person needs a week or a month to absorb the experience and begin working with their new colours. Still, if the person had travelled some distance, I’d certainly do the makeup then.
    I’m not certain about “red drapes” . That might be out of context. The drapes are used in a certain order, there are maybe 12 or 15 sets used to make the determination, of which the red drapes are 4 of the 15. There are 12 seasons, indeed. The Colours Book is just as she said, but I’ll tell you, it is very well thought out from a usability perspective.

    You know, I’ve only analyzed 20-25. I have no concerns that I won’t be able to find the season. If I have a concern, it’s that I will make a pre-judgement about the season. I have to trust the drapes to show me. As a relative newbie, I’m probably more impartial than a very experienced person might be. I dont’ know. On the other hand, someone with experience might have a different sort of confidence. Learning a process is a funny thing, different for everyone. Still, by the time I’d done 7 or 8, I knew I could do this. I might have taken longer back then, but I knew what I needed to see. Maybe she’s faster than I am and doesn’t do makeup?

    Not sure exactly where Lora lives, or how portable she is. I do believe she has some drapes, but I dont’ know if the Sci\ART drapes are particular from those of other companies. You could ask her, she’s very easy to talk to, very real-world based.
32. Kathleen Crise on September 10th, 2009 3:16 am

    I am 64yrs old & I am a Warm Autumn who needs help with my colors. I do have some rosacea. Can someone help me with colors? TY
33. Christine Scaman on September 11th, 2009 6:44 pm

    Kathleen,

    I wrote this article before my Colour Analyst training with the Sci\ART company. Since then, I don’t use the “Warm Autumn” classification anymore. I would probably say “True Autumn”. Having said that, though the methods for arriving at the person’s season are different in the 2 systems, the palettes you result with are much the same. I think the makeup recommended in this article is still pretty close. Maybe others can help with more recommendations.
34. Lourdes on November 16th, 2009 11:47 am

    Many years ago, I had a Color Me Beautiful study done and realized why the browns, taupes, olives,beiges and mustards looked good on me. These were not my favorite colors; however, when it came to clothing, they were. I’m an Autumn.
    When it comes to lipstick,it’s really hard to find the right shade. I have gone thru hundreth and thrown away lots of money. Over time I have 3 shades that iI really like, Cinammom Toast by Loreal, Toast of New York by Revlon and my very favorite, that I can’t find anymore Fiery Russet by Estee Lauder.
    Any suggestions as to where I can find that Fiery Russet or something very similar?
35. Christine Scaman on November 16th, 2009 5:48 pm

    Hi, Lourdes,

    Finding discontinued colour can be hard. Do you know the company Three Custom Colour? They will blend you anything and the match is exact. May cost a bit more but for a beloved colour, it can be worth it.
    Have you tried contacting EL Customer Service? Or asking big Dept. stores to call their various branches and see if anyone has it? I don’t know that colour but it reminds me of the colours I see a lot of at the Lancome counter? Have you tried matching it in other companies (I know how unbelievably hard that can be). I’ll look at the colour if it’s still there next time I shop (which is often) but the EL saleswoman here tells me they’re discontinuing a pile of lipstick and other products. I’ll let you know if I find anything.
36. Kathy on November 29th, 2009 7:18 pm

    “Dior Sunkissed Cinnamon. The price of this stuff is deadly but I like the sheerness and softness of the color”

    MAC’s Cubic is a close cousin, and much cheaper. They have several warm, slightly dirty pinks that would probably work well for warm or soft autumns.

    I thought I’d pop on over to some of the autumn threads, seeing as though I’m still in the “experimenting” stage of color analysis. Re: Autumns and red hair — My natural hair color is a medium warm brown but I color it auburn. Most drugstore reds — the deeper ones especially — lean a little cool, mahogany/burgundy and those shades made my skin look a little sallow. Last summer I threw caution to the wind and colored my hair with a (temporary) coppery red and something clicked. My eyes, which I never though of as anything but basic brown, looked warmer, more golden, and my skin looked much brighter. I also lost whatever ability I had to wear cool colors, especially in makeup. I know the hair is covered with a cap during analysis, but you don’t go about your day with your hair covered, and a drastic shift definitely effects how you look in certain colors. I know I can’t make myself a certain season by a hair color change alone, but I think erased any doubt that I am more warm than cool.

    The elimination process is frustrating, to say the least. I’m dark, but not really; I’m contrasty and clear, but not exactly…

    (I did find the spring “starburst” pattern in my eye, but it’s hard to see unless I’m looking directly into the light. That’s a start.)
37. Sepha on February 23rd, 2010 3:12 pm

    So glad to discover this site. Last July, David Kibbe’s name was mentioned. I saw him for a consult 10 years ago, which was FABULOUS. I’m coming out to N.Y. from S.F. and I’d like to work with again. Does anyone have his contact information? I’d be so very grateful. Thanks.
38. Christine Scaman on February 24th, 2010 6:08 pm

    Hi, Sepha,

    I can’t help you with Mr. Kibbe’s info. But did want to say that if you have an interest in colour analysis – all of these Makeup Model articles, at least those published before April 10/09 approx, were written before I became a colour analyst myself. Though this info isn’t wrong, it’s not completely right…or I would express these ideas differently today. I leave these articles here because so many communicate here.
    The real deal is at 12blueprints.com
39. Sepha on March 13th, 2010 3:42 pm

    Thanks for responding Christine. (Any suggestions about how I might track down David Kibbe? He’s a man of mystery:)
    Sepha.

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